First off let me say that I am a christian, but not evangelist.

We can agree (if you’re christian) that Jesus redeemed the collective when he took on our collective debt. But don’t you think that one must redeem himself/herself by taking on our own crosses so to speak?

Do you honestly believe that only believing in Jesus will redeem you? Is not ‘belief’ nothing more than thought structure? Do you believe that believing in an image is good enough for redemption? What happened to christian mysicism, and why don’t protestants and evangelicals have mysticism?

Do you honestly believe that changing laws, being political, and singing songs is what Christ died for? Don’t you think there is something more to his sacrifice?

I fear that most christians are using Jesus for ego identification and personal gain, rather than redemption and spiritual transformation. I’m afraid that Jesus’ message is being wasted by zealots and politicians for personal gain. For things of this world.
Big, Could it be that “it” was meant that he ushered in a new consciousness? As in the Christ-consciousness of accepting what is? I think Jesus died to show us that through surrender, there is redemtion. Christians do not accept what is, they fight against life itself. No wonder we’ve become so materialistic. Not to mention while Jesus accepted suffering, most of our country is on anti-depressants, shopoholics, and over-eaters. Not very Christ-like.
Venus, did Jesus not say “take no thought for the morrow”? Why are christians concerned with the furute when Jesus himself instructs us not to?

15 Comments

  • Yes it’s sad…but Jesus will come with the rewards for people for what they did on the earth for good or bad. They will reap what they sowed on the earth. And the bible mentioned that People will say Lord lord i did … and Jesus will say ‘ i dont know you, you go…! Its the part of the scary confrontion. People make the choices … but they will pay for what they did…REAP! you just focus on yourself for what you suppose to do as the bible tells you to do and to help one another ( waking each other to be ready for Jesus; to help them turn away from their sins.. and to pray!) YOu just show yourself as the light on the hill.. people will see what you do and they will follow your example… and follow the path to Jesus. That’s all we focus , and not try to judge them… God knows their hearts if true or false worshippers. Stand firm for Jesus.

  • This is a good question and should be asked. Thank you.
    I believe the basic appeal of the so-called CHRISTIAN religion, is that one need not really DO anything to be an accepted and forgiven member of the flock. in fact, the more bad stuff you did before joining, the more valuable you are in that society. You have truly been “saved’.

    Jesus did not have too many hard and fast rules, mostly guidelines, and he is famous for being forgiving so you can mess up time and time again( 70 X 7) and be forgiven. Thats GREAT!

    Sure the good old ten commandments is usually cited as being CHRISTIAN, but it is really a Jewish thing that MOSES got from what he thought was GOD, not Jesus. Jesus came 1500 years later in time. Jesus was a rebel against the Jewish religion, not a practicer of it.

    The Christians certainly trash the ten commandments as much as any non-christian sinners, but to hear them explain it, “We are not perfect, just forgiven.

    Christians commit adultery, they kill, they steal, they lie and cheat, they fornicate, they beat their wives and neglect their parents, they worship idols, they violate the sabbath, and so forth on and on, just as much as any non-christians, and perhaps more because they have eternal immunity from sins just by praying and asking to be forgiven.
    Perhaps that is why this church attracts lazy people that want others to do everything for them. They want to be SAVED from themselves by the sacrifice of a total stranger who died “for them” 2000 years before they were born into a life of sin. I have seen many people on Government welfare that are good Christians. Once again, letting someone else do it for them.
    Now try to find a lazy Buddhist who expects somebody else to save them. Cannot do it! They rely upon themselves for their own salvation through proper life and behavior and deeds and thoughts. That is being truly spiritual and NOT lazy. It is a hard road but worth it. Straight is the path and narrow is the gate. The Jewish rebel, Jesus, tried to explain that, but is ignored in his true messages. Instead they revert back to those old Jewish saws about honoring GOD blah blah blah. The Jews did not believe that their GOD was the ONLY God. They just thought he was the best God.
    They were wrong of course. The God they worshipped, Jehovah, is and was not the true one and only God. He is fake! He is a user and abuser. Look waht happened to the “chosen people”. they got messed over for believing in a false God. So too have the Christians been messed over because they bet their money on the wrong dog. The TRUE GOD is not of any certain religion. he does not allow monopolies. He is everywhere and all-knowing and laughs at the puny humans and their pathetic attempts to worship what they think he is and how they pray to him asking for boons like stupid cavemen and savages. God has already put salvation in the hands of each person if he will go inside and see the GOD within that was placed there in the form of a spark of intelligence that can be fanned to a flame and you shall then know the truth and it shall make you free. He did this when he saw what the demiurge had done. THAT is your salvation. you earn it. it is not given to you. It has to be paid for.

  • I agree with you very much, that too many Christians don’t want to do the work that Christ has given us, work on ourselves, we are to strive to be like Him, the work of preaching the gospel of salvation-all are called to this evangelical work, the work of being a good witness- the very thing most people on this board complain about. Who wants to be a Christian if it is all suffering and pain, or if you appear to be a hypocrite, badmouthing others or living your life the way you want and not the way Christ would have.

    Of course we are human, but if you are born again you have the holy spirit to help you and guide you. It is work, it is just easier to go along with the world view and ride the wave of societal pressures. Or is it? In the end you do answer for the things you have and haven’t done in this life, and I pray that I can discern what his will is on a daily basis. Jesus did redeem thru his blood on Calvary, and I owe him my life for that. I do pick up my cross every day, and often fail at being the person I am called to be, but I at least try. One day soon, I hope it won’t take such effort, today is easier than yesterday, tomorrow could be even better! That is the hope we have in Christ at work in us, we just have to work with him, not against him.

  • Amazing! I know you will get allot of not so great answers for this question. Change comes by works, so to speak, spending time in the Bible, fasting praying, resisting the devil, fighting the good fight, running the race, and these things are not easy to do. Jesus Christ paid the debt for our sins, He defeated the enemy for us, He promises to help us through everything, this is all truth, but we do have to pick up our cross daily, we do have to die to self, and that is work, and that is something that we , ourselves must do.
    I believe, to profess Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, and then go and do and say as I please, regardless, putting up a little fight or a little resistance to temptation, is using Jesus Christ and His gift of forgiveness.
    As James 2:17 said- FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.

  • I am a christian. You would make a good evangelist. You are right. Believing only will get you no where. I’d like to quote one verse.
    James 3:19 Thou believest that there is one God, thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
    20 But wilt thou know O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    OK 2 verses.

  • Yes, and yes.

    I honestly believe that only believing is Jesus will redeem me – based on the majority of the book of John, and by the exchange between Jesus and the thief on the next cross.

    I’m not believing in an image, but God. Isn’t the metaphysical, supernatural God mystical too? Mysticism (for both Christians and Jews) degraded quickly into misguided cults that distorted the gospel and ended up losing the message altogether.

    Granted, plenty of people, Christian and otherwise, seem to live only for this life, regardless of what they profess to believe.

    As far as taking up our own crosses – definitely. We’ve been told to. Or rather, told that he who does not is not worthy of Him. There is a personal responsibility, after confessing faith and accepting salvation, to be an actual follower of Christ, and that implies knowing Him, having a relationship with Him, and allowing the Spirit to guide us to do God’s will.

    At this stage, I’m no longer surprised to find “Christians” who claim the name but don’t walk the talk, just disappointed.

  • I too am a Christian and let me begin with agreeing with you. I also believe that too many people are getting rich and powerful by incorporating CHRIST into their agenda. Just look at all new “christian” bands out there now that christian music has exploded. Not to mention all the “health and wealth prosperity” doctrines floating around. But where I differ is that I DO believe that belief is enough. I present 1 point to prove this. When the thief on the cross next to our Savior said “remember me when you get to your kingdom…” (thereby expressing belief in who CHRIST was) HIS response was “Truly I say to you that today I will see you in paradise .” (all paraphrases since my Bible is not readily available). All he did was believe in CHRIST and he was given a ticket to heaven. He earned our salvation by dying a sinless death for all sin. If we could do ANYHTING AT ALL to earn our salvation why did HE have to die on the cross. When HE said, “It is done!” HE meant it. and HE did it!

  • I guess I don’t really understand your question. But the Bible does say in Romans 10 that if you believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and say with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord” (and of course, that’s not a magic phrase…I think, it’s a real declaration of “Hey! You are my Lord!”) you will be saved from your sin. So, yeah, it does just take belief!

    But, to answer your question, “Why do christians make Jesus do all the work?” You can’t do all the work–that’s why He died for us! Anything you do can’t compare with the awesome love and power of God! When you have a spiritual transformation based on your belief, things will change in your world–be it laws, music or worldy gain!

    I do respect your idea, though–the most important thing is just Jesus! Not the extras. But, don’t beat yourself or others up when good things happen–God died for your benefit on earth and in heaven!

  • I agree with your stance. It seems in society, people use the phrases “Well, I’m a Christian” as if they have a moral high-ground… rather than true purpose of loving Jesus and God. Our old church had a man who was “apparently” my dad’s friend & kept saying how you missed church one week and how horrible a man he was for that. I think people get egos as if “God is on MY side” when dealing with others. That’s not Christianity! Furthermore, look at George Bush who consistently brings faith into politics. He constantly says, “I answer to a higher father” involving decisions of war or abortion, etc. Does he truly believe in it to have to blatantly state it? True believers don’t need to blatantly say that to the public, true believers follow the flow of their faith and let it help them discover life. I agree with what you are saying.

  • I use Jesus for redemption. He says to cast your burdens on him, and he came to earth to die for us.

    we don’t have to pay our own debt, though. That’s the wonderfull thing. Jesus came to earth to die for us completely. Why would he die only part of the way for us?

  • Give a man a fish and he will hunger the next day, but teach him to fish and he’ll never be hungry. Give a man salvation and he won’t do jack shit for himself (or those around him) ever again.

    They “believe” they are saved and nothing can convince them otherwise. Even if you smack’em right in the face with some form of mysticism (christian, harmonic, or even wiccian) they will claim you are a devil worshiper and condemn you to hell.

    Why work when you believe you are not required to?

  • I won’t get into my entire belief here, but I will say that Christians have hit the nail on the head. Christ died for our sins. It’s point blank simple. To get to heaven you must believe that Christ was crucified and died on the cross for your sins.

    Christ also taught (mostly through example) of how to live. While no human is perfect, they should still strive to be Christ-like. That isn’t a prerequistite to get into heaven, but it does help to build your personal covenant with God.

Leave a Comment