Home Discussion Forum Why did the dalai lama endorse ogyen trinley (as the karmapa) and...

Why did the dalai lama endorse ogyen trinley (as the karmapa) and the thugs who took over Rumtek monastery?

Please do not give references only. i am grateful for references and sources, but I am looking for a concise, sensible answer. Thanks.


  1. The Dalai Lama is a religious shyster just like all the rest, and has been on the CIA payroll for decades.

  2. Very simply, because HH Dalai Lama is 100% sure that HH Karmapa Ogyen Trnle Dorje is who he says he is. It is a simple matter, either you agree with HH Dalai Lama and say he is right, or you agree with the other one who claims to be the Karmapa.

  3. that’s easy, because he is the real karmapa. I’ve heard from my Tibetan friends and a Lama that the Shamar is the sketchy character in all of this and that he may even be a Chinese spy and supporter.

  4. For two pretty obvious reasons:
    1. He was explicitly asked to confirm the recognition already made by leading Karma Kagyu lamas, HE Tai Situ Rinpoche and others (HE Shamar Rinpoche hadn’t come up with his rival candidate yet at the time, by the way), and
    2. He was (and is, like the vast majority of the Tibetan lamas from all four main traditions) fully convinced that it was the right candidate.
    Regarding your remark about the “thugs”, I think no one would deny that great mistakes were made on both sides of the Karma Kagyu split, and that the issue has been handled remarkably unskillfully and cantankerously by both parties of the conflict. I can’t see that HH Dalai Lama himself did any mistakes, however.
    Of course everyone agrees that the situation is highly unfortunate, and one of the greatest problems seems to be that a large group of Western Kagyu followers have been effectlively “cut off” from the mainstream bulk of Tibetan lamas and sangha, since most Tibetans, including a majority of the Kagyu hierarchy, naturally follows the candidate endorsed by His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the other leading Tibetan masters, whereas a remarkably great part of Western Kagyupas have come to follow the rival candidate.
    I am not a Kagyupa myself, but I have to say that HH Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje is a thrilling personality and one of the most amazing young tulkus to appear in Tibetan Buddhism in a long time. I have no doubt he is the right one, but I hope there will be a place for the other candidate too, somewhere in the official Kagyu system, even if only the first one can be the formal head of the whole tradition.


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