Home Discussion Forum where would wicca be without Gerald Gardner and Aleister Crowley?

where would wicca be without Gerald Gardner and Aleister Crowley?

for the record i’m not wiccan , i just study the occult
most wiccans today do not know where wicca’s origins come from.
now i’m not saying i dislike wiccans i’m just saying that high schoolers that pretend to be wiccans get on my nerves.


  1. I have no idea.
    But Crowley was a genius.
    edit: Steven G: *eye roll* And yet… still a genius.
    Oh and I’m not Wiccan either, just to clarify.

  2. Ummmm….Gerald Gardner and Doreen Valiente borrowed heavily from Crowley’s work. They just edited it to make it more palatable. Crowley got a lot of his ideas from 16th century author Francois Rabelais.
    A good example is the whole “and it harm none” BS that wiccans think is so ancient. It ain’t. The first public mention was 1964 by Valiente in a speech. Her and gardner took it from Crowley and changed it just a bit. He got it from Rabelais’s book Gargantua.

  3. Crowley was a genius? Crowley screwed little boys and preached about needing young men for his army. You’re sick.

  4. The neo-pagan religions had to start somewhere and the work of Gardner and Crowley formed the basis of several different paths. Would they still exist if it wasn’t for the work of those two? Hard to say. Someone else may have come to the forefront as an “expert” on ancient practices. (see Slightly Amused’s excellent response)
    In my studies of my Celt and Pict ancestry, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of the material is based upon speculation, mostly because these people did not use any written language (that survived). That doesn’t stop me from appreciating those who have worked hard to put together a truly amazing puzzle of the past..

  5. Stop while you can. The war for the souls of men is real. There is a loving God who is trying to save the children of His creation from the great deciever who because of pride lost his position. Now his aim is to take as many as he can with him. Through whatever means necessary. While he can use lies and deciet, God can only use the truth and “whomsoever will, come”. Wicca is a new name for witchcraft. Demons are the power behind it. Do not dally on Satans playground for he doesnt like you whether you serve him or not. Get out. Pray for deliverance and you will get it but make sure you pray to the Creator of heaven and earth. There is only one

  6. Without Gerald Gardner there would have been no Wicca. It’s possible someone else might have devised something vaguely similar, but without Gardner there would be no Wicca.
    Gardner was influenced by Crowley (as a lot of occultists are) and was familiar with his works. We have no evidence of any direct involvement of Crowley, and while stories – mostly from Valiente – tell us that Gardner originally borrowed quite a bit of wording from Crowley, Valiente went through and reworked most things (although you can still find a few pieces here and there)

  7. Well stated. Some fairly credible sources, such as Francis King, claim that Gardner actually paid Crowley to directly author his principle rituals.

  8. Merry Meet Kolbie,
    What Wicca is as well as its practices by any name you wish to call them have been around for a while. Realistically it’s pretty hard to come up with new or authentic material in this day and age. All the community needed was someone to really put a name to certain practices as well as organize the basics of what is now known as Wicca into a comprehensible and formal religion. If it would not have been Gerald Gardner stepping up to the challenge, it would have been someone else. It really would only have been a matter of time, especially because so many people are tired of the business as usual religions and beliefs out there.
    Where would Wicca be? Probably in the same place, but most likely called something else since it would have been influenced by a different author or leader. Many paths throughout history are named after the founder, so I am surprised Wicca is named as such. But no matter the name or its direct lineage into history, I feel that Wicca today fulfills many peoples needs personally as well as spiritually so time really is not an issue here except for those who wish to find fault in everything and everyone. If you look hard enough you will find the good or the bad, its really choice.
    Blessed Be


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