Home Discussion Forum Skeptics, atheists, & men of science, I have a few questions for...

Skeptics, atheists, & men of science, I have a few questions for you…?

Why is it that you rely so much on science to answer all of life’s mysteries? Do you ever actually question the science itself & think more deeply into it? How it has been developed, how it changes throughout history, its methods, how it proves things to be real etc.
I think people are basing there beliefs too much strictly on scientific evidence. No I am not saying we all should just use our imaginations & start believing in any crazy thing we like without any evidence. But I am saying we should not be so strictly attached to the idea that our science can explain everything & has all the answers. There are different forms of evidence btw, scientific evidence is just one form. I think people should be more open to other things besides just what science is revealing.
Science has been developed by materialistic beings. Therefore the science itself is based upon a materialistic point of view. And people in this society are so conditioned right from birth into the materialistic world view. I find it quite sad the way society is. Following any beliefs blindly (religious or not) is ridiculous yes, but believing in strictly today’s primitive science that has so long to go & has yet to understand so many countless things, & is developed by a species with such a materialistic view on life, & that only focuses on the outer physical world we perceive around us is just absolutely pathetic.
I think science desperately needs a revolution. Science is so focused on the physical & that needs to change. We need to recognize the nonphysical reality. The nonphysical realms, the nonphysical bodies, & the nonphysical energies etc. There is an excellent quote by someone who I can’t remember the name of. – “When scientists start looking seriously into the nonphysical they will make far more progress in a decade than in any previous entire century.” I absolutely agree with that.
I think science needs to change the way it ‘proves’ things. With telekinesis for example, if you can move something with your mind once (with your nonphysical mental energy which our current technology cannot detect), there is no guarantee you will do it again. Therefore science will automatically disregard that & it’s credibility. That system is deeply flawed. There are many factors involved when it comes to things like ESP. Things that scientists don’t understand. To disregard something because it cannot always be repeatable on the spot under the same conditions is just plain stupid.
A recurring common thing atheists in-particular (not all of them though) keep saying is that I see no scientific proof of this or that blah blah blah. Therefore they refuse to believe in things like God, an afterlife, ESP or aliens etc & will base their beliefs strictly on science. Now don’t get me wrong, with all that you’re reading believe it or not I honestly love science, & it is essential in life obviously. But what annoys me is people keep looking at just what TODAY’S science is telling us.
I think it is quite foolish to simply rely on today’s current scientific understanding & dismiss anything else that isn’t currently 100% scientifically proven. Science is always discovering new things & things thought to be once impossible become possible. History can attest to that. We have come a long way, but we still have so far to go as well. It is foolish to dismiss the ‘paranormal/supernatural’ because of the way we currently understand reality with our limited perceptions & our primitive technology.
As always science lags behind experience. It is common sense to me that many things like ESP will be scientifically proven eventually, & it shocks me that others fail to see this. Wtf is up with people dismissing anything as nonsense if there is no absolute scientific proof to validate it. Crazy sh!t happens all the time, quite a lot of unexplainable paranormal sh!t. Today’s primitive science does not have all the answers.
Any so called debunking of paranormal things (like telepathy, astral projection, levitation etc) only happens due to the flawed scientific methods which cannot measure & detect these things. The paranormal is really just normal natural stuff that happens that we have yet to properly understand due to our severe lack of knowledge & primitive technology. It is not like we humans as a species are already at our peak & know it all. Compared to what has yet to come we are all retarded. We still have a long way to go & there will be many new discoveries that will change things forever. So why the f*ck does everyone act like we do already have the answers & will automatically dismiss anything they don’t understand.
I believe our science is based on the illusions we perceive. Therefore the science itself is fundamentally flawed to begin with. I think we need to change the science itself, right along with our perceptions of reality. Science is in need of a desperate revolution! Are you honestly confident enough in our science to base all your b
-Are you honestly confident enough in our science to base all your beliefs upon? Can’t you see science has a very limited view of what reality truly is?
Btw I would also just like to point out I am not religious, nor atheist, nor do I hate science, or disregard it from my perceptions in life. So please don’t attack me because I question the nature of science. Say anything else negative if you like but I am just so sick of everyone attacking me anytime I question science.
Actually I am going to be an author. I just discovered recently that is what I want to do with my life. I am currently writting a book on astral projection & lucid dreaming.
The technology in science has changed throughout history & in the future I have no doubt it will begin to recognize the nonphysical aspect to life & it will deal more with consciousness rather than the materialistic physical world we see around us. I say science is flawed btw because of it’s materialistic nature & the way it proves things to be real. I do think it needs some sort of an upgrade.
No doubt there are many frauds out there, but the real ones are out there too lost in a sea of frauds.
I say science is primitive because although it is moving forward it seems to me as though it is just continuing in the same way when I feel it needs a shift in another direction. It has so much more potential but is lacking due to the materialistic mindset of scientists. The smartest people aren’t always the men of science. What about enlightened & awakened people who see past the illusions of this reality. Scientists are not always at the top where the most intelligent people are. Also I mean primitive compared to higher dimensional beings far more advanced then our civilization.
“By what method would science “accept” the idea of ESP, UFOs etc, without proof?”
There is much evidence for these things (UFOs & aliens in-particular). Although not scientific in nature & so it is disregarded as fiction, fantasy, myth or whatever. If 10 people were abducted by aliens & later told their story, nobody would believe them because aliens are believed to be make believe due to no scientific evidence. If they said they were abducted by humans then it’ll be taken very seriously & fully investigated. As soon as it steps into the realms of the paranormal though it’s disregarded as a bunch of bs. That to me is utterly absurd.
I am certainly not gullible for believing in something that our current scientific technology does not understand.
Though one thing I am beginning to understand now is that our physical scientific tools are only good for measuring this physical world. While to detect & measure nonphysical things you use your mind which is nonphysical. Your mind is like a scientific tool itself & is essentially the best way to measure all nonphysical things. You can measure some nonphysical things with physical tools & in the future this will happen more & more as technology improves, but it’s still not as effective as using your mind. I realize now that physical scientific technology is just an aid for undevloped minds. It is there to help undeveloped primitive minds (like human minds) that lack the proper education to efficiently use their own mind as an effective scientific tool itself. If the mind was fully developed there would be no need for technology, as I believe anything technology can do (regardless how advanced) the mind can do better.
Obviously there are countless cases out there of so called paranormal happenings that are found out to be faked, or are perfectly normal or hallucinations etc. Nevertheless this does not disprove these things entirely. There’s always going to be idiots out there doing hoax’s for fun, fame or whatever.

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  1. I disagree. The Scientific Method has changed very little (if at all) throughout history.
    You keep saying “we” need to change this, “we” need to change that. Who is “we?” and why are you so needy? Scientists are people who like to study the natural world—to try to understand and characterize the laws by which it operates. Anything is fair game,… so long as the experiments can be repeated.
    You said that science is “deeply flawed” because Scientists will not study, for example, somebody who moves something once by telekinesis, but who can not ever do it again. Sorry, but a thing that is never going to happen again is not an interesting thing to study. If you could produce somebody who is able to move things by telekinesis, on average, say one out of every hundred attempts, or one out of every thousand attempts, then scientists would be all over that, wanting to study it and find out how he does it. But if it will NEVER happen again? There’s just nothing there to study.
    Scientists will study what they WANT to study. They don’t serve society: They get into science to satisfy their own curiosity. You can’t tell them what to be curious about.
    For people who have the scientific mindset—people who want to understand how the universe works, and who have the mental discipline to use logic and math—the Scientific Method has been extrordinarily succesful for thousands of years.
    You can’t change that. There is nobody on Earth who has the authority to change it. It just is what it is.
    P.S.: About “debunking,” When some fakir says that he can bend spoons with his mental power, and the camera catches him bending it with his hand after he misdirects the audience’s attention, it’s not “due to the flawed scientific methods which cannot measure & detect these things.” It’s called exposing a fraud.
    There are so many fraudsters out there that a skilled watcher could spend his whole life travelling around and exposing them, and never have any time to do any actual science.

  2. The only thing I will agree with in your rant is that there are definitely opportunities to discover new things previously unproven by science.
    Other than that, you keep calling science primitive. How do you figure it’s primitive. We can now clone animals. We can eradicate disease at birth that just 50 years ago would have been incurable. How can something be primitive when it’s constantly moving forward?
    Finally, people base their beliefs on scientifically proven facts because it makes sense to do so. Back when people thought the Earth was flat, it’s because the smartest people on Earth thought that too. I’m not saying science is perfect, but it’s ever evolving constantly improving. And if you gave me a choice as to who I would want to put my beliefs in line with, I’m going to pick the smartest people every time.

  3. Science only explains things that it can investigate. When repeatable results show that something is true, then it’s accepted to be true by the scientific community. Until then the scientific explanation will be that there is no evidence of existence dispite some attempts to verify.
    By what method would science “accept” the idea of ESP, UFOs, etc without proof? All of the topics you mentioned have been investigated and continue to be investigated by interested scientists. Some of them even have some evidence that supports existence of some of that stuff. But at this point, in those cases there are flaws in the way data was collected or the results aren’t repeatable. Maybe some aspects of the “non physical” world you describe might someday be validated. Until then, it’s unproven and so not accepted by the scientific field.
    Individuals can believe whatever they want. They can also choose not to believe things. So what? To say that some things exist but will never be explained by science is just a lazy, uneducated view of the world in my opinion. I say uneducated not to be insulting, but to indicate that you probably are not familiar with the depth to which the various fields of science have established a framework of repeatable results and consisten hypotheses. Instead if you strongly believe in fairies you should just believe that they are very hard to prove but perhaps someday will be verified scientifically. Until then believe in them all you want to.
    There is no need to “change science”. That really doesn’t make any sense because it is a large body of knowledge that evolves, has conflicting results, and is owned by nobody in particular. The fact of the matter is that words are cheap and although this is a nice way to spend the time philosophizing, the fact that you perhaps “accept telekinesis” and other things just shows that you have a much lower standard of proof. You are easy to convince, perhaps even gullible. That doesn’t make you wrong, but that definitely doesn’t make the scientific method and body of knowledge wrong.

  4. WOW, that’s the longest “question” I’ve ever seen !
    Anyone who doubts your assertions should read a few issues of respected scientific journals from 100 years ago. They are full of silly notions, like phrenology( this is the study of bumps on ones head and their relationship to ones personality), the genetic superiority of white men (specifically Western European white men) and doctors masturbating women to cure their “hysteria”.
    The science guys (I’m really one of them, in disguise) will say, “yeah, but we’ve advanced since all that rubbish was published and now we KNOW better.”
    Do you really think it will be so different in another 100 years ?
    The problem is that it takes the perspective of time(often a great deal of time) and many conclusions to see the science from the rubbish, even when scientific methods are used to determine both.
    Nicola Tesla was ridiculed out of business by Thomas Edison for foolishly suggesting that AC power transmission was more efficient than Edison’s, highly capitalized and successful at the time, DC system. Scientists were firmly on Edison’s side, in spite of Tesla’s elegant work (after all Tesla was an ignorant immigrant and Edison was the “wizard of Menlo Park”)
    and they were dead wrong.
    Scientific conclusions are often dead wrong, but saying (or arguing over) whether or not Science(with a capital “S”) is “right” or “wrong”,or EVER asserting that science has achieved a definitive answer, is foolish. Science should be considered a tool, not an end in itself.
    Like a hammer, science can be used to build a house or bludgeon someone into bloody submission. The unknowing and the student often use it as a bludgeon, most real scientists know their limitations and use it as a tool.
    Would we argue about a hammer being “right” or “wrong” ?
    Some of the other posts are correct, there is no need to change the scientific method, but there is a desperate need to change the religious faith that the unenlightened (I know this is a loaded word perhaps uneducated, or ‘overeducated’ is better) have in Science(with a capital “S'”)
    Popular Science (and I’m not refering to the magazine) has left the realm of reality and entered the realm of religion. We now BELIEVE it will cure our problems. I hope our BELIEF is justified, or our world is doomed.

  5. “How it has been developed, how it changes throughout history, its methods, how it proves things to be real etc.”
    Entire books have been written on this, I suggest you find some and read them.
    “The nonphysical realms, the nonphysical bodies, & the nonphysical energies etc.”
    Science is concerned with what can be tested and is repeatable. These things have been shown, time after time, not to be testable and not repeatable. You don’t measure affection with a thermometer or a ruler, the things are incompatible. Despite this, scientists have looked into the paranormal things you are on about. That goes right back to the 17th century and early investigations by the then newly formed Royal Society in England, and has gone on from time to time ever since. The results of these investigations have shown that science is not suitable for investigation of the paranormal or that the paranormal things claimed were explainable or fraud. Virtually every time some paranormal thing is supposed to happen while being investigated, it fails to happen.
    I have a radio in the kitchen. It works every time I turn it on. It is a product of physical science stretching back into the 17th century or earlier.
    Last year we had a paranormalist, Blossom Goodchild predicting that a huge aliens space ship would appear over the south eastern USA in September or October, I forget which. It did not turn up.
    In 2001 a thread began on about.com/paranormal about portals to another world to be found in rural Michigan. This thread was still running as of a few months ago and spread to multiple sites and forums. Early in the thread one poster claimed that these portals were documented in a book published about 1960 called “Proofs of my Return” by a man called John Palifox Key.
    No trace of such a person can be found, and no trace of the book can be found. The university neat Atlanta Ga where he is supposed to have studied has no record of him, there is no record of anyone of that surname and initials in old Atlanta phone books. He is said to have moved to France and is still alive. There is no person of that name in the French phone records, which have been on line since the mid 1990s. None of the people supposedly associated with the phenomena can be traced, even when apparently valid names have been given except for two, both of whom are computer scientists, one was actually in Michigan but the woman of the same name claimed to be a sales representative for door fittings and security items etc. .
    People who went to the locality in Michigan found nothing. If you read the thread closely, particularly at the first, you see that the claim about the book was made 20 minutes after the initial posting. It was pretty clearly a set-up. Search “I drove out of this world for 20 minutes”.
    At present there are thousands of questions on Y!A about the supposed disasters in December 2012. Ultimately these are based on an interpretation of a Mayan long count of days by Jose Arguelles who used them to predict something big for that time. Arguelles seems to have used astrology.
    Other prophets of something for 2012 have used numerology, coin tossing with the I Ching and heaven knows what else on the date. Predictions range from stray planets to galactic alignments as well. Astronomers know that the stray planets are not physically possible for reasons that have been known since the time of Sir Isaac Newton if not before. Even if they existed, they should have been visible for months if not years, from somewhere round the Earth by anyone with a half decent telescope. They are not visible. They also know that three of the supposed galactic alignments that have been prophesied by these people will not happen and neither will the planetary alignments.
    In addition, it is known that one of the supposed alignments happened in 1998 and nothing was noticed.
    In the 1970s in France, an objective test of astrology was done. The birth dates, times and places of many prominent but not famous people were sent to astrologers, but not their names. Full horoscopes were cast. These were compared with the known careers of the prominent people and no correlation was found, just none.
    I think it was the conjurer James Randi who has a number inside an envelope in a drawer. He offers a sizable sum to someone who can tell him what it is. This has been going on for something like 20 years, his money is still safe last I heard.
    Spiritualism was based on tapping heard in a house in the USA which was claimed to be communication from the dead. After decades, two sisters who were girls at the time confessed to cracking their knuckles which they could do at will.
    In the early 20th century two little girls dressed dolls in then current fashions and photographed then with a cheap camera. Various spiritual “experts” proclaimed then to be real “fairies”. Decades later one of the then girls confessed. See the “Cottingley Fairies”.
    One evening not so long ago, some people were videotaped making a crop circle in England. The following day, a “crop circle expert” said they were too complex to be human – made. They then showed him the video clips.
    Need I go on?
    Now it is perfectly true that strange things do happen. There may be several possible explanations for these, including illusion, hallucination, coincidence, straight forward lies, self deception and maybe a dozen others. When these things are examined, it is usually, though not always, been found to be due to one of the things I have mentioned. Some are outside any explanation we have at present. At present. But direct investigation of these things usually shows fraud, coincidence or illusion.


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