If ideas are intangible what is the perception of one that is unable or unwilling to form them?

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Would this be considered a Zen approach to enlightenment?
Is it even possible to not form an idea or is this concept directly associated with brain activity and therefore an impossible feat for any that are counted among living?
Would a disconnect from the abstractions of perception afford any semblance of experience that leads to knowledge?
Is this a hypothetical exercise of futility that is unworthy of discussion because of its nature as such?
By disconnect from abstraction I was attempting to convey an unthought of thought or a thought that is not being thought of as a thought but is simply thinking with out the direct willful conginitive direction of mind that you are talking about reader, I know the task I am describing is impossible if I think about the fact that it is thought but I can not think of any other way to become unaware of that and still hope to have a perception that results in knowledge.

5 Comments

  1. I see friend Alex took up your challenge, and I thought I’d tag along as well. The Samurai have a word for that state of mind for which you seek. While I will not say this word, I will share that the search for it is rich indeed with a timeless beauty of duty without a want for things. You may begin the search in the link below, and if you are unable to find it there, then search out the five rings.
    ***** Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai review:3 stars (Interesting as a historical text) http://godmoon.co.uk/Japanese-Philosophy.htm
    As a philosophical book, or a book about a way of living, I think the Hagakure falls short. Yamamoto Tsunetomo often comes across as simply an irritable, grumpy old badger. During his service to his lord, he never participated in a battle (he lived in the Edo period) and he was not really the world’s greatest retainer either. Therefore it is difficult to put any merit into his personal ideas and philosophies.
    I have a few reservations about this translation, no matter how much I like it. It abridges the original 1300-plus passages down to 300, and abandoned the traditional organization of passages. I appreciate the brevity, but I wonder how much this non-native translator may have sacrificed in the abbreviation.******
    ME!
    PS, interesting web search on the name you have chosen as your avatar
    http://www.ask.com/web?q=mtheoryrules&search=&qsrc=0&o=0&l=dir
    .

  2. From experience, I will tell you.
    I fasted on water for a month.
    I broke the fast on fruit juice.
    I went to a meditation center
    and performed a breathing technique
    My aim was simply to stop thinking.
    After 30 minutes, it happened.
    The realm of my perceptual awareness increased.
    Again, I am not thinking, or situating myself in experience.
    It was as if my head, where experienceis localized, expanded
    Better: I could “see” from any possible vantage point
    So, were I to be 10 feet in the air looking down, I saw that
    Together with every other angle.
    It was very interesting and so I began thinking about it all
    seconds later

  3. In one word: Vision.
    IF you really wanna see, you’ve gotta close your eyes and find your vision. IF you don’t see with your eyes, don’t hear with your ears, you will not think with your mind. Then you will ‘see’.
    Anyone can do it; just close your eyes and relax your body. When your body is completely relaxed, you will go deaf. Let me know when you hear the silence.
    He who sees with his eyes is blind…Plato.
    Good luck!

  4. Those are some interesting questions. Actually my brain feels a bit overwhelmed by their scope LOL.
    I would say, first, not all ideas are intangible. Or at least, many of them can be made tangible – like with art.
    I don’t know why anyone would become unwilling to form or have ideas. In fact, i don’t know how you could stop that process without being comatose and brain dead.
    I don’t know that much about Zen either, but I think that concept of “enlightenment” has more to do with realizing that you’re not your thoughts. As in, you’re not the proverbial “I think therefore I am” especially if you have negative thoughts about yourself. Like I said, I don’t know that much about Zen, but I do know of some psychiatrists who are using a branch of Zen (called ‘mindfulness’ in the West) to diffuse mental illnesses such as anxiety and depression. They use a type of meditation that focuses on simply watching and observing the thoughts, emotions, and even physical feelings that pass through the body. Eventually this is supposed to “enlighten” you with an “awareness” which really boils down to you realizing that your thoughts and feelings are more like clouds floating through the sky. They come, they go. You’re prone to focus on and worry about the really negative ones because you’re trying to better yourself always. But if you just sit there and observe them you’ll see that there’s no reason to worry and obsess and therefore become sad or depressed because your thought-stream jumps all over the place from one thing to the next and your emotions respond to your thoughts and vice versa and in five more minutes they’re all new again. Eventually you realize you’re not “a bad person” or “lazy” or always tired or always depressed, youve just been identifying yourself too much with your thoughts and emotions – eventually you find some peace and happiness in being released from the pressures of trying to fix yourself, yada yada.
    Mainly I think that’s what Zen’s approach to enlightenment is supposed to do right there. Make you aware of your inner self and the way your thoughts happen and how you respond and then you can go about life a little easier because you can choose how to think or feel, knowing yourself a little better… But I could be way out to lunch.
    I happen to think it’s impossible to “not form an idea.” But then there are those Yoga folks who say they can clear their minds absolutely. Not an accomplishment that I can add to my resume, not that I’d want to for more than a few minutes.
    I’m not completely sure I understand what you mean by a “disconnect from the abstractions of perception.” I don’t even think that sounds possible, no matter how many schools of thought might suggest that it is. That idea alone is a perception, is it not? And what is knowledge anyway? How do you define it accurately? We all seem to operate within a realm, or accepted degree of what we call knowledge; things we generally all believe to be true. And things we disagree on. But, ultimately, I’d say each person is responsible for his or her own definition of knowledge and how it should be used. Your knowledge could be perceived by me as something completely abstract, for example. Useless to me, but for you it could be very valuable. Maybe you like to use metaphors to help you understand life as you see it. And maybe I like to use mathematical formulas. I can’t imagine how anyone could gain any kind of helpful insight by banishing ideas, to me that sounds like banishing thought. And yet, there are those people who swear this is the answer! Personally, i don’t get it.
    It all may very well be futile, but is has been interesting. Brain feels like soup now. Cheers!

  5. Here is answer and a riddle given by the late saint Ramana Maharshi ; The Mind is just a bundle of thoughts stop thiinking and where is the Mind?

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