Home Discussion Forum How many Near Death survivors does it take to convince the skeptics?

How many Near Death survivors does it take to convince the skeptics?

Approximately eight million Americans claim to have had a Near-Death Experience, and this comes from a Gallup Poll. It’s estimated that many times this number have had one but do not disclose it to poll takers.
A majority of these describe a very similar experience, the tunnel of light leading out into a peaceful realm, the meeting with a beloved relative or spiritual teacher, a life review, and the feelings of love surrounding them. They come back changed by the experience in some positive way.
Scientific experiments done in 1990 to see if DMT released from the pineal gland could cause an NDE were unsuccessful, with only two of the test subjects even reporting a vague feeling of peace.
Yet we hear even today that “science can explain it.”
What are your thoughts on the validity of NDE’s?
It was the Gallup and Proctor survey of 1980-1981 that established that 15% of Americans had had an NDE.

31 COMMENTS

  1. And from this, I then am supposed to believe that god was responsible?
    Does this help?
    Here’s a quote from an ancient Greek philosopher….
    Epicurus: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
    Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing?
    Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing?
    Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing?
    Then why call him God?”
    Answer your question???

  2. I’m not sure that sitting through a Garth Brooks concert counts as a near death experience, although I do appreciate that it may feel like that at the time.

  3. nothing will
    jesus said it best
    Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
    Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
    Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
    Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
    Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

  4. “Approximately eight million Americans claim to have had a Near-Death Experience”
    NDEs are the result of lack of oxygen supply to the brain

  5. I don’t claim they don’t have an experience… I just think it’s all in their heads… it’s a physically and emotional stressful situation…
    I’m sorry, but what do these experiences prove exactly… other than people nearly have died…

  6. ***A majority of these describe a very similar experience, ***
    A majority of people suffering from toothaches also describe remarkably similar experiences. Clearly the brain undergoes a transformation at the time of death that may cause these types of symptoms. There are many, many NDE survivors who report no such experiences. The fact remains that there isn’t a shred of credible evidence to indicate that these “experiences” are anything more than the symptoms characteristic of a human brain in its death throes.

  7. Approximately 1 who provides evidence of it being on a level above dreams.
    You ever notice how those in non-Christianity dominated countries never have these?

  8. It’s an artifact of oxygen deprivation to the brain. Pilots in G force training have the same experience every day.
    Fail, but thanks for playing.

  9. Perhaps you would like to provide a link to the Gallup poll so we can all be convinced.
    Just to put you out of your misery, it comes from a book written by George Gallup Jr, not from a Gallup poll, and it refers to 15% of people who have been in a near death situation and recovered, not 15% of the population.
    So somewhat less than 8,000,000.
    You fail.

  10. The funny thing is the bible doesn’t describe death in that way at all. So my question would be…with all the evidence of NDE’s why do people continue to believe the lies of the bible?

  11. More than 8 million people believe in the Loche Ness Monster, Big Foot, UFOs, etc. Popular does not mean true. Besides, have you ever heard of people describe alien encounters? The situation is always similar. That is because they have seen these events played out in movies and TV. It doesn’t lend credibility to their claims.
    On the flip side, how many actual deaths of people who were good, caring, god fearing individuals does it take to convince the ignorant that there is no god?

  12. And millions have claimed to have been abducted by aliens. I guess you believe them too.
    But to answer your question, NDE’s are hallucinations brought on by a lack of oxygen to the brain.

  13. Its impossible to convince them. There will always be a dissenter going to press, so these skeptics can always find support for that dissent in print.
    I asked a few questions about an incident involving an attested miracle that took place in the USA in the last 20 years, and the folks involved are still alive. None of them would comment, and you can be sure they would not get in a car to go check it out. Similarly none of them would comment on the scientific research into reincarnation published in 1966 by Ian Stevenson. Meticulous research. Certainly suggests that life is enduring, even if I did not accept that it proves reincarnation.
    Regarding NDS I don’t have an issue, because the subject of life after death is my favourite subject. However you don’t learn much about life after death from NDEs.

  14. i know two people with near death experiences and it even open the door to everything.. ive seen them astraly project to me one can send out demons and the other one sees ghosts and is really spiritual.

  15. Oh, NDEs have convinced me. They’ve convinced me that people see what their cultures have lead them to expect. NDEs in Islamic and Asian countries report experiences appropriate to the cultural expectations.
    What’s more, even if all were experiencing exactly what you describe, doesn’t that fly in the face of most organized religions? Surely, some of these 8 million were unrepentant sinners or unbelievers. Why did they also experience the peace and love? Surely some of them would have experienced Hell.
    If we all travel to a place of peace and joy after death, then most religions must have it wrong.
    And this is what I believe, IF there is some sort of afterlife, any belief system or none is less important than how you act here on earth, so that during the “life” review, you won’t have too much to regret. Live your life by the Golden Rule, and let the metaphysical stuff take care of itself. Certainly, arguing whether women should preach or not because of a certain verse in a certain book, not allowing gay couples to make a commitment to one another publically, pro-choice, and other “non” religious stances aren’t going to be determinative factors.
    So, what do these NDEs really prove? If they are anything other than a common experience caused by brains shutting down, and releasing certain chemicals, then individual religions and religious differences or a completely lack of faith in any deity aren’t important.

  16. Quoting a single inconclusive study doesn’t prove magic is real. It turns out in scientific experiments, so-called NDE are reproduceable without any risk of the subjects actually dying.
    I have hallucinations every night, called dreaming. Millions of people have very similar experiences, flying about and seeing naked girls they went to high school with. That doesn’t mean there’s actually a magical land where that stuff actually happens. It’s all hallucinations.

  17. I am a skeptic. I have had an NDE. It did not convince me of anything – and I was a believer when it happened!
    Science can and does explain it. Seeing lights and hallucinations are quite common with NDEs. This is nothing new – it has been known and documented for quite some time. People may feel changed after an experience – but that does not mean that what they “saw” was anything more than a dream their brain cooked up while it struggled not to shut down. It doesn’t mean what they experienced was real – it just means they BELIEVED it was.

  18. I don’t think it is ok to judge it unless you have experienced it yourself. While I have not had one, I thought I was, and a feeling of peace did come over me. I’m not sure why, if it was just in my head or not, but in a situation where I should have been scared, I wasn’t. That’s all I know.
    I have no comment on what others have said they have experienced.

  19. there are surely even more people who report seeing a ghost or hearing voices or meeting aliens. there are certainly more people who have experienced tinnitus (ringing in the ears). the striking thing is that all these NDE reports started quite recently. this suggests that this is something that people say because they heard or read other people saying it, not because it happens. otherwise we would expect identical reports from hundreds of years ago–or from isolated tribes that have not been exposed to media reports of these alleged experiences in the west.

  20. it doesnt matter how many, most people, have to experience these things themselves
    as for the scientific evidence, i dont know anything about it to be honest, so cant say
    but i believe if something is, then we will eventually find the evidence
    me, ndes, have no idea, never experienced, buti do know our biology, takes control of a lot about us when our mind/psycholgy has to take a back seat

  21. The fact that 8,000,000 people forgot their meds is of little relevance except to the Pharmaceutical Companies.
    If I push my thumbs hard enough into my eyes I can the the light in the tunnel too.
    COUNTERPOINT – ……….. and if what they saw was so fantastic, why did they come back?

  22. ­Science cannot ultimately explain why some people have near-death experiences. That’s not to say that current scientific explanations are incorrect, but NDEs are complex, subjective and emotionally charged. Further, ma­ny aspects of NDEs cannot be tested. We can’t run a test to determine if someone actually visited Heaven and met God or purposely take someone to the brink of death and then resuscitate them in a lab to test their out-of-body perception.
    Nevertheless, medical science offers compelling evidence that many aspects of NDEs are physiological and psychological in nature. Scientists have found that the drugs ketamine and PCP can create sensations in users that are nearly identical to many NDEs. In fact, some users think they are actually dying while on the drug.
    The mechanism behind some of these strange experiences is in the way our brains process sensory information. What we see as “reality” around us is only the sum of all the sensory information our brain is receiving at any given moment. When you look at a computer screen, the light from the screen hits your retinas, and information is sent to the appropriate areas of the brain to interpret the light patterns into something meaningful — in this case, the words you are currently reading. An even more complex system of nerves and muscle fibers allows your brain to know where your body is in relation to the space around it. Close your eyes and raise your right hand until it is level with the top of your head. How do you know where your hand is without looking at it? This sensory system allows you to know where your hand is even when your eyes are closed.
    Trauma affecting functional areas of the brain, such as the somatosensory and visual cortexes, could cause hallucinations that get interpreted as NDEs. Now imagine that all your senses are malfunctioning. Instead of real sensory input from the world around you, your brain is receiving faulty information, possibly because of drugs, or some form of trauma that is causing your brain to shut down. What you perceive as a real experience is actually your brain trying to interpret this information. Some have theorized that “neural noise,” or an overload of information sent to the brain’s visual cortex, creates an image of a bright light that gradually grows larger [ref]. The brain may interpret this as moving down a dark tunnel.
    The body’s spatial sense is prone to malfunction during a near-death experience as well. Again, your brain interprets faulty information about where the body is in relation to the space around it. The result is the sensation of leaving the body and flying around the room. Combined with other effects of trauma and oxygen deprivation in the brain (a symptom in many near-death situations), this leads to the overall experience of floating into space while looking down at your own body, and then leaving to float down a tunnel.
    The peaceful, calm sensation felt during NDEs may be a coping mechanism triggered by increased levels of endorphins produced in the brain during trauma. Many people experience a strange sense of detachment and a lack of emotional response during traumatic events (whether or not they were related to a near-death experience). This is the same effect. NDEs that include visits to Heaven or meetings with God could involve a combination of several factors. Faulty sensory input, oxygen deprivation and endorphin-induced euphoria create a surreal, though realistic, experience. When the subject recalls the encounter later, it has passed through the filter of his conscious mind. Bizarre experiences that seem unexplainable become spirit beings, other dimensions and conversations with God.
    The experiences of people whose out-of-body adventures allow them to see and hear events that their unconscious body shouldn’t be able to perceive are more difficult to explain. However, it is plausible that unconscious people can still register sensory cues and prior knowledge and incorporate them into their NDE. Whether this is more plausible than the subject’s soul floating out of their body is a matter of personal opinion.
    Of course, this only scratches the surface of all the possible explanations for an NDE. NDEs seem to offer some hope that death is not necessarily something to be feared, nor is it the end of consciousness. Even science has a difficult time grasping death — the medical community has struggled with specific definitions for clinical death, organ death and brain death for decades. For every aspect of an NDE, there is at least one scientific explanation for it. And for every scientific explanation, there seem to be five NDE cases that defy it.

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