Home Discussion Forum Are there any other theists out there that think like I do?

Are there any other theists out there that think like I do?

My world view is this: A person will always be most drawn to that which is most self-satisfying. Now, I am not saying that I am an egoist, or that I believe in egoism. I do accept and believe that altruistic actions are possible. I am only implying that a person is most compelled by self-satisfying options. Namely, eternal life, moral justification, etc. “Faith” in a religion or god is the first line of defense for a person’s ego. It becomes the most important thing in the world. This is why when a believer is presented with clear-cut evidence that their religion could be wrong, or at least, imperfect, they become terribly irrational. It is because it is a most terrifying experience. Most do not believe in such things because of rationality. They believe in it because (and I’m repeating myself) it is the most self-satisfying option.
The one message that Christianity delivers is that you must deny yourself and give to others. This is the very definition of altruism. Altruism is an honorable feature, and honor is very desirable to people. People believe that (by adopting Christianity) they will have achieved this high honor. They forget that just “being Christian” is not enough. As you have said, the church has become all about the stories and doctrines. I believe that the church is now preoccupied with defending the authenticity of their faith from science. Remember, the Catholic church was most likely the most powerful force on earth whenever science was rising, and they tried to stop it. Somehow, science still prevailed. It is because people found enlightenment. You see, people are curious creatures. In the ancient world, people had the intelligence and the integrity to ask questions, but did not have the means to answer them. How did the world come into being? How did man come into being? They wanted answers to these questions, but did not have the means to. God and the bible is the perfect remedy to those questions.
I often ask people (with the intent to spark their rational), “How do you explain that people of every religion experiences the same spiritual enlightenment?” I only intend to spark their rational. Make them feel that perhaps their religion is not perfect. As I have said, it is a terrifying feeling for a person. I do not like to terrify them, but I believe it is for their own good. The fact of the matter is, this is an extremely hard wall to break. Perhaps the strongest psychological wall that the mind is capable of forming. The Christian religion especially secures the believer with a sense of righteousness, eternal life, and other fascinating features. And whenever the believer is challenged or ridiculed, they have the support of Matthew 5:11. Thus they are only strengthened whenever presented with evidence against them.
As far as atheism and theism is concerned, I believe the world needs both. Theism has been in control for the majority of human history, and they have made a mess of things. Of course, it is a bit unfair because they did not have the kind of stable governments as we have today. But atheism also has its downfalls. Look at Russia, China, and Japan. These atheistic countries are industrially successful, but morally and socially, they are crippled. A society needs both atheists and theists to balance one another out. This is because you will always have the extremists of each one.
That is my world view. My personal view is this: God exists (most likely), and He is a personal God. The Quran and book of Mormon are two books made my people who were not in touch with God. The bible is a book made up men trying to make sense of both God, and the world around them. The men who wrote the bible (at least some of them) were probably in touch with God, but the actual text was not directly inspired by Him.


  1. Congratulations, you are another person who has made up his own religion and believes that everyone else is wrong.

  2. probably many…. but not me
    For all your words, your ignorance of The Truth is so sad…. almost… but almost only counts in horse shoes

  3. I don’t really understand your views, to be honest. Of course people are drawn to that which is most satisfying, but I’m not sure how that relates to religion. So many of the religions in this world preach against caving to worldly pleasures, teachig that in order to become better than we are now and to connect with God, we must first deny the inclinations of the natural man (the urge to fight, to kill, to have sex, ect.). How does that fit with egoism?
    And you’re making the assumption that the opposing views you present to religious individuals are correct in the first place. You claim that your evidence–or at least the generalized evidence–is clear-cut and obvious, but to whom? You? Have you considered that perhaps our views of God seem just as clear-cut and obvious to us? It comes down to a difference in perspective, not a difference in facts.
    Besides, true faith IS built on evidence. It’s built on experience and study and the testing of theology. You may disagree with that, but while that’s your right, it’s also only an opinion. You can’t disprove God. You can’t disprove faith. You can argue against it. You can use examples that you think support your theories, but so can we. It works both ways, because it’s still just an argument, not a position based purely on provable or widely accepted facts.
    Nor do I think all religious individuals become irrational when facing an opposing view. We’re discussing this calmly, aren’t we? And yet we’re in opposition.
    I think you’re missing the entire point of altruism, though. We don’t give because it makes us feel good about ourselves. Altruism isn’t about the self. Perhaps some do give because it’s personally gratifying, but in those cases, altruism isn’t involved at all.
    Nor is religion in a battle against science. Science doesn’t have all the answers. There are still so many things that we aren’t even close to understanding or doing, but why does science have to be against God at all? Has it occurred to you that, just perhaps, God knows more about scientific laws than we do and is using science at a level our limited human minds simply can’t yet process?
    And your question, the one meant to “spark our rationale” isn’t even difficult to answer. People of all religions can have the same types of experiences because we all worship the same God. Maybe our views of Him are different. Maybe our doctrines are sometimes in conflict…but God is still God. We have the same experiences because we have the same God.
    You say that there’s a psychological wall between faith and logic, but while I truly mean no offense by this, you’re still working under the assumption that your own view is the only valid one. You seem to view those who believe in God as irrational creatures in willful denial of facts and evidence, but again, aren’t you just as willfully refusing to consider the opinions of the other side? Our opinions and faith are also based on evidence and facts. Rationality and faith aren’t mutually exclusive, because faith is based on rationality You may not agree with that, but you’re still blurring the line between opinion and truth.

  4. I agree with much of what you said until the last paragraph. While I don’t consider myself an atheist (I prefer agnostic), I can’t see the Christian god as the creator of the world. Don’t get me wrong. I sometimes feel as though there is some sort of supernatural being out there, somewhere, especially after learning about some of the ideas covered in “The Secret.” I feel as though much of what I believe seem to correspond with Buddhism. I just don’t think it’s the god who many of us refer to as god. I most especially don’t believe in Adam and Eve. This story is the main backbone of Christianity. I don’t think the world was created as was described in Genesis; I believe in evolution. However, if one were to believe in Adam and Eve and evolution at the time, A & E could have came been the first humans that were “created” from mutations in an ancestor who was the direct relative of humans as a species.
    I agree that it’s better for some people to be given “false” hope, so that they won’t see the lack of a spiritual leader as a signal for disaster. It’s what they’re used to. This is just false hope. You said there were flaws among both theistic and atheistic countries. There are also flaws among both believers and non-believers. Many believers are so caught up with wanting to please their spiritual leaders (i.e. their gods) that they don’t take the time to question it. They are bound to the central books of their religion. Some follow it to the T. Some have gotten so overzealous that they feel the need to push their beliefs onto non-believers to save them, to expand the number of followers–whatever the reason may be. At times their beliefs leave them blindsided. God and forgiveness! It seems like a free ticket to do anything you want, because you’ll always be forgiven.
    Many people have attached the idea that you must be religious in order to be moral. Just like any other stereotype, this is definitely not true. It’s true that non-believers don’t follow an organized faith that intends to lead one toward a more moral life. However, there are many non-believers who live a moral life without feeling the need to follow a system of thought. They follow their own paths. The problem that some non-believers have is the stigma that is attached to following a religion. I believe the main purpose for following a religion is because you agree with its foundation, such as how things were created and the existence of that religion’s supernatural being. The moral behavior that results from following the religion is secondary and results from following the religion. There is a misconception that if you behaved immorally, one should not follow the religion at all. Or if you have certain (forbidden) desires you wish to fulfill, the moral boundaries of any religion would restrict you from carrying out those desires without feeling guilty. THAT is why I think the downfalls exist for those atheistic countries you have mentioned. They are power hungry, and would do anything to show that. Following a religion would get in the way. In fact, (I’m Asian) in my family as well as others, I have seen that many follow some sort of god as a way to give them better lives and opportunities–the belief that a god is a genie who possess the power to make all your wishes come true, but that is not the purpose of following a belief. They look at religion from a shallow point of view. Their hardships, they feel, doesn’t give them time to think deeply about the ins and outs of any religion. They do their praying and sacrifices for the god(s), and move on when things go well.
    Furthermore, religion began before the development of modern science. I believe that the reason why it had developed in the first place (as you can see from Egyptian and Greek mythology) is that people have questioned and become curious about how things work on Earth. Why does it rain on certain days and not others? Why does one person live a better life than another? Where does lightning come from? And fire? Is there someone who needs to be pleased in order for things to go well for someone? Where does one go, or what happens, when he/she dies? That last question affects everyone, believer or non-believer. Death has always been on the minds of people. It is inevitable whereas wealth, a family, and friends are not. I think the fear of death was a driving force for the development of religion. Curiosity about the world is another. Curiosity leading to the explanations of various things that are encountered in life have provided answers that leave people satisfied by the end of the day. These explanations (true or not) give answers to why the sky is blue or how fires were made without giving an in-depth scientific answer. When science began to explain the actual reasons for why certain things happen, people and leaders of religious faiths denied it. They are afraid of questioning what they had known and been taught their entire lives. They didn’t want Copernicus to tell th


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