Discussion Forum

Pagans: What is your opinion on Ceremonial Magick and High Magick and Crowely’s Works?

The story about him rasing Beezelbub in the desert and looking decades older interests me greatly.
LabGrrl: Um, OUCH! How about telling me the truth about him then X-(

13 Comments

  • is it possible to gain heavenly harmony from the angels for musical purposes? Enochian magick opens you to angelic beings so they may guide you right?…yet youre supposed to use an Enochian system of language and speech, this is all interesting and all but im a little confused. In Mcgragers (or however you spell his name) translation of Abremelin the mage i believe it’s the second book where it says any chants in a tongue foreign to man is diabolical since God and his angels can perdectly understand whats natural for us to speak … this is quite a rut for me since i have no teacher. Im all for the idea behind enochia its just you have to be careful idont wanna channel any dark forces. Oh and the keys of Solomon please explain in detail ( if you could)its differences and similarities to Enochia. Thanks peace and love to all!

  • Was Crowley full of himself? Yes. Was he a genius? Yes. In my opinion High Magick has it’s place. As Pagans, so much of the ritual work that we do is based on energy that we raise from ourselves, however with High Magick, the magician is tapping into more powerfull universal energies and also working with various spiritual entities, which is something that most Pagan ritual doesn’t do.
    Myself, I am Pagan, but am interested in Ceremonial Magick. My only problem is that I don’t believe in the Christian hieirarchy that most systems use…so I am looking into ancient Egyptian, Hermetic and Chaos ideas.
    In my opinion Crowley is very much worth reading, but you probably have to read several works of his to get a feel for his style and to understand what he is saying in between the lines.

  • Well I am a card carrying Thelemite, so I do have a few opinions on the subject 🙂 I have collected a fairly extensive library over the years. Crowley is probably one of the most talent magickians and that was partially the problem. He really enjoyed the process of bad press and infamy, so the rest of us must endure some of his bad sense of humor and intentional misdirections of those who were unable or unwilling to get the jokes. Crowley had a very extensive classical education and a very extensive magickal education via the London Golden Dawn Lodge. He assumed that you had at least that level of education or you would not be reading his books. Until of course one of my favorite mistitled books “Magick Without Tears”. It has one of my favorite quotes “The Great Work is not a Tea Party”. It sums it all up right there.

    Ceremonial Magick incorporates both High and Low magick. High Magick is Theurgy or seeking union with the Divine and Low Magick is Thamaturgy or material ends. If you read the Emerald Tablet it will tell you about “as above so below”. The process can be similar and as such I make no value judgements on the magick itself. For those who claim that Ceremonial Magick is “boring and too much work” peachy – then don’t do it. For those who think that wielding the term “High Magick” makes it more important I would recommend doing a bit more reading. You might be very shocked by what you find.

    What are you are talking about were the workings with Victor Nerumberg. They were crossing the dessert on foot so I am not surrprised that they were a little worse for wear. I believe that the book is called the Vision and the Voice. There are however valuable lessons about NOT casting Goetic Circles in the sand there 🙂 I know lots of folks who work with the Goetia and they do not age any differently than the rest of the world… sorry.

    Good luck and enjoy!

  • I consider any Magick to be a crutch. If one can find the balance and harmony they seek without the use of Magick, so the better. If not, then make sure all magick is positive. I used magick for only a very short time in my Pagan upbringing. Meditation and focus gained the same results and did it with less consternation. I will admit the use of incense, candles, altar decoration, and background music as aides in my spiritual journey, but no real magickal practice.

  • I look at the various negative posts towards Crowley and high Magick and can say that all of these negative posts are nonsense. If one even tries to compare low magick that is found in Wicca to the Ceremonies of High Magick, they have little knowledge of magick. I’d like to see any of them try to envoke a Geotic Spirit or Enochian entity with knot work or little goddess spells.As well. it wasn’t Beelzubulb that Crowley evoked, it was Choronzon. It find it funny that we see more myths among pagans than we do Christians and pagans are the first to bitch about the church misinderstanding them.

    High Magick and Low Magick are two totally different arts. Knocking ceremonial magick as a pagan is the same as a painter telling a sculptor that their art is nonsense. Two different paths.

  • I don’t do magic or magick. I do think Crowley was a genius in some regards but, like a lot of people who are too smart, he was also nuts and fell into the trap of energy junkie. When he couldn’t focus to do the magick any more he turned to drugs and kinky sex.

    Like most in the field of magic (especially in those days) – he had his faults in addition to some rare insight.

    For me – ceremonial magic is too complicated, unnecessary and egotistical. A lot of it is also misprinted intentionally so you have to find the real stuff inside the work yourself. Crowley said that it’s up to the reader/student to find out where the lies are and what’s the truth.

  • Honestly I have never read a single word from Crowley and I have no desire to work magic.
    I know, I’m a disgrace to pagans everywhere. *G*

  • crowley was a great magician, and I believe his works with the keys of solomon were the best, I also have read the book of the law and the book of lies, 777 and use the crowley/harris thoth deck when I read cards. ceremonial magick is very strong and complex, taking up to 20 years of hardcore study to master…

    I have summoned assyriel himself and know that crowleys rendition of the keys is a working one and have no doubt about the raising of baal by such means. yes, after you summon the demonic powers your body begins to age faster because of their touch. I myself am turning nineteen soon but I look 30. I summoned assyriel at 14. it is true.

  • Ceremonial/High Magic is unnecessarily formal, too long and drawn out, and often boring. For that reason, I prefer my rituals simple. You can actually accomplish the same things in a simple ritual.

    As far as Crowley goes, he was definitely full of himself and wallowed in the publicity about him–and even went along with it at times for kicks and giggles. Despite that, Crowley was an Adept occultist–one of the best ever. Unfortunately, many pagans are under the misconception that Crowley was an evil Satanist, so they don’t bother with him or don’t take him seriously. The problem is, they’ve paid too much attention to anti-Crowley propanganda put forth by anti-occult fundamentalists, Silver Ravenwolf bred goodness and light fluffy bunnies, and other morons.

    Anyone who works with magick should read Crowley, whether they prefer their rituals formal or informal.

  • I’m with LabGrrrl on this one. Most folks who are involved with magic other than ceremonial magic haven’t a clue in H E double L about ceremonial magic or the genius or contribution of Crowley to modern magic–and they parrot a lot of the negative propaganda that was spouted about Crowley by Victorian era critics. If Crowley was so horrible why do so many scholarly treatments on the history of occultism –by academic historians on the matter–devote whole, largely sympathetic chapters to him and his contribution to western occultism?

    Yes. He was a strange character –but he had a revolutionary take on things related to overcoming Victorian era oppression of will and sexuality and self-knowledge. You have to actually understand the work and the motivation before criticisms are made.

    Magia goes back to the ancient Chaldeans (3000 BC) and eventually was divided into 2 categories: theurgy and goetia. Theurgy was the type of magic that was more like a spiritual practice–a way to illumination, gnosis, and power through working with god-forms. Goetia was coercive magic, spellcasting, and spellbinding (sorcery, witchcraft). Ceremomial magic can be theurgic or goetic–and it was both for Crowley but even he supposedly admitted in his diaries that he often did not get results from coercive or manipulative magical rites though he did get insight and ecstasy from performing certain rites.

    Modern day ceremonial magic is more about achieving insight and of affecting outside change through transformation of consciousness–and this sometimes involves facing ones demons. It acknowledges that ritual and symbol are important in this endeavor–because the transformation must take place in deeper levels of consciousness than the ordinary waking rational mind state. It is somewhat similar to highly esoteric Eastern forms of occultism that are also highly ritualized and are about transformation of consciousness and not folk magic spell casting and coercive magic.

  • Utter garbage,been there done that,crowley was a narcicistic ego maniac who like Ron.L.Hubbard conned his way to fame with their own made up religions….
    Kelvens I’m with you fella and thanks for the thumbs up….

  • I find “high” magick to be needlessly over-complicating things that should be very simple.

    I can get much more out of knotting string and tucking wishes into thimbles than I can from waving swords and shouting Latin.

    And Skin’s right, Crowley was full of himself.

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